Revenge
Unless they’ve been living under a rock, it’s unlikely that anyone in current or former fundamentalist circles has not heard of the expulsion of Christopher Peterman from Bob Jones University mere weeks before he was to graduate. Although his list of alleged crimes ranges from the inane to the obscure to the downright confusing, there is a deeper story here that is worth considering.
To fully appreciate the significance of this action it’s necessary to retrace the steps of a horrifying story that is all too familiar to many of us. It begins when a man named Ernie Willis raped a young girl named Tina Anderson. The pastor of Tina’s church at the time was Chuck Phelps, a man who by his own testimony not only failed to vigorously pursue justice for Tina but also required her to give a confession of her alleged sin before the church and then aided in removing her from the state and apparently out of the reach of local authorities.
Yet with the fact of his actions revealed both on national television and in a court of law, Chuck Phelps remained a person in good standing with several fundamentalist organizations such as The Wilds and Bob Jones University. Bob Jones not only continued to call him a friend of the college but after the conviction of Ernie Willis then went on to proactively show their support for him by placing him back on one of their own boards. This past December, a few alumni, students, and other concerned individuals attempted an on-campus protest in an institutional environment where protesting is almost unheard of. As may be expected in such an authoritarian environment, very few students joined in to the calls for BJU to “Do Right.” One student agitator, however, stuck to his guns and decided to take the risk. That man is now ex-student Christopher Peterman.
At that time, with the news cameras rolling and the social media spotlight shining on them, Bob Jones University took no disciplinary action against the protesting students. But they did take note of them. They always take note of those who do not come to heel and fit the “spirit” of the University and they wait their chance to exact revenge for this perceived disloyalty. Because Bob Jones University is not interested in justice, or freedom, or right, they are interested only in defending their own no matter what the cost in human misery.
So the when they had managed to gather together enough petty charges against this student, they summarily expelled him, mere weeks before he would have graduated. For those of us who have attended similar institutions this is hardly a new tale and hardly unexpected. The campus purges of “undesirables” who are considered unworthy to graduate are a commonly accepted fact. At my own alma mater we referred to this rash of sudden dismissals that would occur right after the spring deadline to withdraw as “spring cleaning.” First they take your money. Then they show you the door and tell you that you are no longer welcome here.
No doubt the headlines (such as they are) will be more concerned in the fact that a college student was punished for watching the television show Glee or not having a proper haircut. I find the focus on those details unfortunate, because beyond these imaginary infractions the real story here goes much deeper to a kind of institutional corruption that is so blatant and yet ignored by those who call themselves friends of the University. One wonders how many more rapes, how many more cover-ups, how many more countless wrongs must be inflicted by Bob Jones University before even the darkened souls of their fundamentalist supporters are too sickened to continue to be complicit in their commission.
I do not expect that this one student being expelled will bring about a sea change in the institutional policies of BJU. They have shown themselves to be all but immune to criticism and dismissive of correction. If there is any lesson to be learned here it is that current students should take care in squaring off against the behemoth that is the university. It is easy enough for those of us who no longer have skin in the game to encourage protest and outcry. It is quite another to put the time and money invested in your education on the line. While a student remains in their house the university has all the leverage and none can say unto them “what doest thou?”
I can, however, hope that perhaps a few potential students or pastors who have up until now been their allies will choose to spend their hard-earned money elsewhere. Perhaps even a few current students may decide that they cannot continue to consent to the present abuses of power by their silence and will choose a transfer to another school rather than live with the constant threat of being summarily expelled themselves for imaginary crimes. Perhaps if enough people vote with their feet, Bob Jones University will then at last be forced to grudgingly do right.
Categories: Current Events
First?
by weecalvin on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:37 pm
2nD?!!
by exOBCstudent on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I wish that I had had the same courage and moral outrage that Christopher Peterman possesses. I never spoke up when in a similar position but finally, perhaps inevitably, my life was touched by the moral corruption that infects the leaders of fundamentalism.
by Slartibartfast on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Well written Darrell. It sickens me when I see this, but I also am not suprised. What’s worse is I bet folks still in the IFB who see this will find some way to write it off and disbelieve it all.
by exOBCstudent on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Just a reminder that, by BJ standards, grudgingly doing right is not really doing right at all, and I actually tend to agree with that.
by doofle on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Fifth disease!
by Skeptic on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:56 pm
You’re right about that, exOBC. Students who “have talked to someone close to the problem” or who claim to have “known” Chris are going to blogs and tearing him down. Of course, alumni who know the truth about BJU and have seen this happen before (and who also know the situation with the DoRightBJU protest) are speaking out, but they’re characterized as “wicked former students” and “bitter”.
Darrell, the Glee reference is the hook that’s bringing more people who are outside the situation to the realization that, yes, it happens. This will put more pressure on BJU — though, unfortunately, as you’ve said, they consider themselves immune to controversy and outside pressure. Especially from the “unsaved world”.
There is one other possible lever here: BJU’s bid for regional accreditation. If they keep doing this crap, SACS could easily deny BJU’s application, forcing the Bob to continue with the sub-par “accreditation” of TRACS. More parents are waking up to the fact that BJU graduates are finding more and more doors slammed in their faces because of the accreditation issue. That might be the outside pressure that WILL cause change.
As an alumna, I wouldn’t put my kids in BJU if they offered a four-year free ride AND they paid me cash. There’s no way I’m putting my kids through that for an almost worthless piece of paper.
by Tikatu on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Assuming the hypothesis that BJU is actually right in their actions: something is dreadfully wrong with your system if it takes years to realize a student doesn’t line up with your goals for them. Wait . . . I guess that nullifies the hypothesis.
Hypothesis 2: BJU is not right in their actions.
by hushai on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Please contact an attorney. This sounds like intentional infliction of emotional distress. Bob Jones must be held accountable for their actions.
I would recommend you seek some sort of counseling. You need to prove that BJU’s conduct was intentional or reckless, that it was extreme and outrageous, that there was a causal connection between your distress and their actions, and that you suffered severe emotional distress.
This can be difficult, but you can get through this! I went to small kjv “Bible College” there is life beyond! These places HURT people! I took a trip to a disciplinary committee for something as equally ridiculous. I made it through, and now I am in a great law school. As much as it seems like it does not exist, there is life beyond! God will provide grace even though BJU may not believe that.
At the very least, meet with an attorney and tell him what happened.
by Jim on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Of course it was intentionally vindictive. Anyone who has ever been to Fundy U has seen it.
Surely he was not so naive to think they’d do nothing to him.
Hopefully he was not so naive as to think they’d change their ways.
He was cannon fodder in a greater struggle. Now it’s time for him to say hello to disillusionment.
by Elijah Craig on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I’d sure love to see a court battle take place as a result of this. I’d like to see the student get something back in return for all that time and money wasted at that place.
by exOBCstudent on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Thank you, Darrell. Very well written post.
by AdamZ on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:30 pm
The gall! To expel a 23 year old student for watching Glee. If BJU is willing to go to the mat for THAT infraction…
by Ricardo on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Just another reason I wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in such a place. It’s a prison camp. They don’t allow you to breathe. What they did to this young man and others like him is unconscionable. They will answer for it at the judgment seat!
by Macushlalondra on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm
He was not expelled for watching Glee. He was expelled because he was a ringleader in the whole Do Right BJU on-campus demonstration. Glee and the SGM song he posted were just the grounds they used.
by Elijah Craig on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm
May the light this incident will shine on BJU help to pierce the darkness that is in the Administration’s souls. Pay day, some day.
by Laurat99 on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Indeed. BJU will have lots to reap some day and it won’t be a happy harvest.
by exOBCstudent on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:07 pm
I don’t think an attorney would tell him he has much of a case
by Guilt Ridden on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:07 pm
This. The day dreaming needs to stop.
He repeatedly broke the rules of a religious institution he voluntarily attended. The administration nailed him for it because they know they’re safe both legally and with SACS for doing that.
You fight a fundy tyrant on his home turf and you will lose every time.
by Elijah Craig on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Let’s be careful of what we say; Ricardo’s post is as twisted as anything Darrel has accused fundies of doing.
He was NOT kicked out for watching Glee. He WAS given demerits for watching Glee. I’ve never seen Glee, but by Mr. Peterman’s own admission of it containing homosexuality, it seems reasonable to conclude it is not a wholesome Christian show.
He was expelled because his demerits exceeded the limit. It seems clear (assuming Mr Peterman’s account is accurate) that the school was looking to find any occasion to give him demerits, and were hoping to give him enough to expel him.
But statements like “he was expelled for watching Glee” are wrong, and a perversion of the truth.
Reading the above, if it comes across as an attack on Ricardo, it is not; I don’t know him and have no animosity at all toward him. I would have written the response to anyone who posted that he was kicked out for watching Glee.
by Guilt Ridden on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
The traditional way of silencing critics of BJU is to say that it’s like being in a military academy: they have a lot of rules against things that wouldn’t be a big deal anywhere else, but if you don’t like those rules, don’t go there. That’s not what this is about. At a service academy, if ANYONE, regardless of rank, were involved in a criminal coverup, anyone who knew about it would be honor-bound to report it to that person’s superiors, going up the chain of command until that person was held accountable. Anyone involved in a retaliatory dishonorable discharge would themselves be liable to the appropriate penalties. BJU’s position seems to be that they are not accountable to anyone, and that anyone who tries to hold them accountable should be punished. It was only because of the publicity he raised that they had to find some other ostensible excuse to expel him.
Did he break the rules? Apparently, he was at Starbucks (not against the rules) and the TV was on (not in his control.) He was watching whatever was on before (not against the rules) when Glee came on (no written rule against it, but BJU claims a right to issue an arbitrary number of demerits for breaking any unwritten ex post facto rule.) Another student had to be there too, watching the same show, to report him. Apparently, you can break the rules and get away with it, provided you tattle on someone else breaking the rule, a sort of perverse honor code.
Even with the arbitrary demerits, the administration did not have enough to expel him by their own rules. As they were preparing to find a way to expel him, he sought counsel. Even in a court martial, the accused may have counsel, but at BJU, seeking counsel is a sin of such wickedness and rebellion that it allows them to add as many demerits as necessary to force an expulsion.
by Papa Bear on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:15 pm
As Darrell pointed out in his final sentence, the best way to send BJU a message is to “vote with our feet” – let us not attend there, nor recommend it to anyone, nor send our children there (assuming that one disagrees with them – if you support them, by all means, attend and send your kids there).
Freedom. One of the things that makes America great.
by Guilt Ridden on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 pm
I wonder, where are his parents on this issue of him being expelled? How much money did Chris and/or his parents fork over? I don’t know how much BJU tuition is a year.
Are they standing by his side and demanding the school let him graduate? I hope so.
I’ll never make my kids go to FundyU.
by Mominator on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Tuition plus room and board at BJU is around $18,000 per year. If he started there as a freshman that means they got $72,000 out of him before they decided he wasn’t worthy of being a BJU graduate.
by choosejoy on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:43 pm
They will answer for it at the judgment seat, and
they will pay for it in hell.
For this, and all their other abuses unless they repent. God is not mocked. He is angry with the wicked every day.
BJU and its ilk are far far worse than the evils we see in even the world’s academia.
by Skeptic on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:19 pm
I would never make my kids go to any post-secondary institution when they are adults.
But I would certainly counsel them out of going to BJU and other Fundy colleges.
by Skeptic on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:24 pm
ugh. this is literally making me feel sick. the cruelty that people can show each other in the name of Christ
by Giuseppi Giraffe on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm
by the way- I think you’ve chosen a very appropriate title. “Revenge” is exactly the attitude here, although I think it gets buried psychologically under “Testimony” or whatever else lends a little righteous flair to the crazy.
by Giuseppi Giraffe on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:30 pm
YOU know that and I know that too, but that is not what BJU claims…
by Ricardo on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Look what showed up as the Random Post at the top of this page:
http://www.stufffundieslike.com/?p=3529
by Papa Bear on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:42 pm
The first day of my senior year in 1985 they put me on “Spiritual Probation” (what a freaking subjective, judgmental joke) and threatened to ship me if I didn’t “conform” or “change my attitude” or whatever. I never had many demerits or “tangible” issues they could hold over me. Funny thing happened…the moniter who was supposed to be “counseling” (i.e., building a case against) me up and left to a non-fundy school in CA, and I never heard another peep from anyone. Since that time I’ve always wondered why no one would try a legal attack where a student was shipped for “bad attitude” but who had not tripped the published expulsion rules…
by Dco37172 on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:47 pm
No offense taken. When 50 demerits -1/3 of the demerits needed to be kicked out- are assigned to watching a TV program that was determined AFTER THE FACT to have been questionable…
How they allow anybody to watch the news? Shouldn’t they be pre-screening every chapter of Little House on the Prairie to make sure?
Yes, when push comes to shove my claiming he was kicked out for watching glee is just as devious as them claiming Mr. Peterman is not a True(c) Christian, so he is not worthy of graduating from a Christian College.
by Ricardo on Apr 27, 2012 at 3:52 pm
He was watching Glee at Starbucks, someone reported it. Yes Glee has some gay characters, but it’s based on a public school show choir-not a fundy high school where the gay kids live in the closet.
What is wrong with Matthew West?
by Strangely Warmed on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:06 pm
He was watching Glee off campus at Starbucks according to reports. This was not against the rules. He also only received 145 demerits, not the 150 required for expolsion.
by Wifeofbill on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm
I feel bad for all the time, effort, and money lost.
by EmilyKing on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:14 pm
BJU: Babysitting for Jesus Unlimited.
Training “Christian” leaders in the techniques of group think, group control, and advanced cult practices since 1927.
… and they say that with a straight face. *sigh*
by Don on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:19 pm
SACS? Uh, no. They are not affiliated with SACS. Not yet. They announced earlier this year that they were “looking into it” based on the number of alumni who were having various doors slammed in their faces due to their TRACS “accreditation”.
SACS — if they actually try for it — will bring about big changes at the Bob.
by Tikatu on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm
One consistent thread I’ve seen in a lot of fundamentalism is that the authorities resist correction right and left, doesn’t matter how it’s done. And then they wonder where we who grew up in it get it from.
by petrushka1611 on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:55 pm
And do not buy their homeschool materials…And if your church is a supporter talk with your pastor about breaking away.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Jim is right, Chris needs to see an attorney. IMHO BJU was operating in Bad Faith since they made that public statement about not punishing those involved in the protest yet made him attend special counseling with the Dean of Men weekly and had him stalked all semester long. Chris was deprived of earned credits, tuition, and opportunity costs – not to mention emotional stress.
Chris, please see an attorney.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:31 pm
My son speaks often of “spring cleaning” at PCC. He describes it as cruel. Taking students money while knowingly planning on kicking them out right before the classes count for credit.
by Fred on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:33 pm
About taking BJU to court–
My initial reaction to that proposal is that you are unlikely to prevail in a lawsuit. On the other hand, you do have grounds to sue, and it might be worthwhile just for the sake of giving BJU’s ways of operating some public exposure. If anything is ever going to make the college change, it isn’t students who have no power, and it isn’t calls for BJU to live by its own rules– it’s publicity, and the prospect of being held up to public ridicule and shame. That’s what eventually made the monstrous ban on interracial dating go away, for example.
The outcome of the lawsuit (likely to favor BJU) might ultimately be less important than the light it would shed on BJU in the outside world (and there’s no F-ing way that’s going to favor BJU).
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Yes, that’s obvious enough. See my comments on that (“Glee” vs. the campus protest) below.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:51 pm
It appears there wasn’t even a rule against watching “Glee” until AFTER he watched the show.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 5:54 pm
I want to offer this aside to Christopher Peterman, in case he reads this:
First, I think that you are 100% right and BJU is 100% wrong in your disagreements with the school. BJU is obviously retaliating against you for criticizing its policies. Your parents, your family, and your friends should be proud of you for standing up for the truth as you see it.
Second, as someone who has been through some PR wars in the past, I hope you won’t mind if I make a couple of friendly comments on your video posted here.
First, you come across as quite well-spoken and the unidentified, off-camera interviewer asks relevant and well-phrased questions.
If I may make a suggestion, though: Wear a different shirt whenever you’re on-camera. Orange clothing tends not to look good on camera, and orange and green clothing looks even worse. More importantly, the backwards letters and numbers on that shirt distracted me the whole time I was watching the video.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:10 pm
I agree, by the way, with Darrell’s two major contentions here:
Current students should not expect any justice from Bob Jones U, and everyone else should stay away from an institution with such unaccountable leadership and such petty and vindictive use of its disciplinary system.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:14 pm
(I hit “Submit” too soon …)
The inability to attract new students and monetary donations (not necessarily in that order) is probably the only thing that can force systematic changes in such an institution.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:16 pm
It seems sad, but inevitable, that mass media coverage of this story will focus on relatively minor details like the fact that student Peterman was punished for watching “Glee.”
News media, especially television (because television works through pictures and sound bites), tend to emphasize the trivial. Without having much of the background story, it’s easier to understand and to conceptualize a foolish (in my view) policy against watching a popular TV show than the whole story about Chuck Phelps, Tina Anderson, Ernie Willis, and BJU students’ and alumni’s reactions to same.
In the same way, there seems to have been more coverage of the story about Mitt Romney’s late dog than of his lying about his political record, and this week I think I’ve seen more stories about a woman spilling yogurt on President Obama than about the Obama administration’s foreign policy. It all boils down to which story is easier to get across in 30 seconds, and/or which one has better visuals.
I don’t even know what should be, or can be, done about any of this. I’m just saying it’s the way it is. Maybe the take-away message is that to fight the BJU machine, Peterman and his allies need to figure out where the most powerful symbols are in this narrative, and how to harness them in short phrases and, most important, pictures.
by Big Gary on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I had once thought highly of the homeschool materials from BJU. Then I found out some things about that made me resolve never to buy anything from them.
In the meantime, I had worked in a ‘school’ that used Beka. My ex-pastor’s kids have gone/are going to PCC now. I bought Beka materials last year to homeschool my kids, but now that I know more about Beka/PCC, I will never buy anything from there again. I agree, money talks. And mine says ‘see ya’ to places like Beka and BJU.
by sempar on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:30 pm
You said that he was watching TV in a Starbucks. There are no TV’s in Starbucks anywhere around Greenville. He was probably streaming it on his computer. Therefore it was under his control. Everything else, I agree with.
by JoeR on Apr 27, 2012 at 6:38 pm
The idiots announced that they were looking into Sacs, and even mentioned it on their website, and then found out that Sacs guidelines stated that they were NOT allowed to claim that they were in any way pursuing Sacs accreditation. It was designed to stop universities trying to trick students into enrolling in a university while it was still unaccredited.
I will be very surprised if they ever get Sacs. They don’t have a clue.
by Tiarali on Apr 27, 2012 at 7:01 pm
I think the discovery process is what frightens institutions like BJU most about these sorts of lawsuits. Like you said, I believe the student would b e unlikely to prevail. I’m not even sure the media would be all that interested, unless the ABC woman got involved again (which she still can, even without a lawsuit). But discovery could blow the lid off a whole bunch of things. So depending on what they’ve got in the closet that is related to this, they may just come out and settle.
by Elijah Craig on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 pm
To make it worst, I’ve actually heard someone try to defend the practice by saying that they wait so that the “those who make trouble have a grace period to shape up.”
Right…the end of the refund period has nothing to do with it…
by Mandy on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:08 pm
Let me be clear: I think that assigning demerits for watching a show that was on a television over which one has no control is ridiculous… UNLESS the school authorities can clearly show that (a) he went there on purpose to watch it, or (b) he lingered at the place to watch it… and it cannot just be what the authority “thinks” happened… there should be clear proof that the student did (a) or (b).
by Guilt Ridden on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:20 pm
“Perhaps if enough people vote with their feet, Bob Jones University will then at last be forced to grudgingly do right.”
I think this is probably the truest, and also the saddest statement about BJU and other fundamentalist colleges like it. How awful is it that, when it comes right down to it, the only thing that will force these places to change is money and numbers (no matter how much they deny it). These are the same colleges that claim to honor and follow the Bible, a book that tells us to listen to Godly wisdom and to heed correction, and yet they are the least likely to do so! It really is heart breaking.
As long as enough people keep attending to keep them in business, the administration is going to keep thinking that money=God’s blessing. If taking that away is the ONLY way that they will listen to correction, so be it.
by Mandy on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Ricardo, they DON’T allow students to watch the news! At least, not on campus. They pre-screen CNN and edit out the commercials and anything that they find offensive. Also, they censor periodicals that students receive in the mail.
One time I was sent an issue of Architectural Digest. Instead of the university mail system delivering it to my P.O. Box, they gave it to my dormitory supervisor. She then gave it to me and said, “We normally don’t allow students to subscribe to magazines, but I’ve looked through this one, and I’ll make and exception for you.”
by Melissa on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:23 pm
He was streaming the show on his computer. This has been clarified a few times already in various places.
by JoeR on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:23 pm
+
by pastor's wife on Apr 27, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Public/governmental pressure is what caused BJU to allow blacks in the 70s and to change their interracial dating policies in the late 90s. So it does work, but it takes an overwhelming amount.
by Used to be Darren on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Shocker. BJU behaves reprehensibly, expels student for calling them out.
by RobM on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:13 pm
The only hope I have for any kind of institutional change for the Fundy U’s is obsolescence, and cessation to exist as in institution.
by RobM on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Did any other students who participated get targeted?
by Tammy on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Consider going to Chris’ CNN ireport and clicking the option below the article that says “This should be on CNN”. If he gets enough votes it might be featured on the front page – which would be huge.
Part 1
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-782070
Part 2
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-782218
Part 3
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-782221
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:47 pm
Actually, I’d prefer them to have a lot fewer paydays. $$ is the only language they seem to understand.
by beth on Apr 27, 2012 at 10:34 pm
That’s right. He wasn’t even given enough demerits to be kicked out, but for good measure, they said he was trying “to intimidate” BJU or some guy at BJU so that’s what tipped the scale and they cut him lose.
by MKXcomm on Apr 27, 2012 at 10:43 pm
I’m not so upset that the Glee thing was mentioned. It shows what kind of lunatics are at the helm of the BJ ship. It actually brings the BJU crazy to a younger generation that screams “STAY AWAY” just like the flagrant racism did for some of us a few years ago. It’s also a great way to tie into the Chuck Phelps debacle. I mentioned it on one of the comments section of a news article and a BJU student actually told me “that has nothing to do with this issue. Please don’t bring that up again. And he did resign…” I was amazed. I think he was so used to being told what to say and what not to say that it’s not a stretch for him to feel he can tell anyone to be quiet and they will.
by MKXcomm on Apr 27, 2012 at 11:08 pm
In other news, Glee is so morally reprehensible that it was the inspiration for the last student body skit today. I’m confused–how is a parody of a TV show FUNNY if no one watches the basis for the parody? Hope someone taped it because students were tweeting #gleeatbobjones and #Allthesingleladies after it was over. Sounds like a massive double standard and a case in point for Chris’ belief that BJU was targeting him for the “Do Right BJU” student “protest.”
by Laurie on Apr 27, 2012 at 11:23 pm
What Rob said.
by headnotbowedeyeswideopen on Apr 27, 2012 at 11:57 pm
THAT would be very interesting to see. I hope someone posts it to Youtube.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:29 am
I’m not sure this is legally accurate. Education (even fundy education) is considered a good faith agreement – in fact, signing up is actually considered an executory contract. I think this case could have merit if pursued in these terms.
by Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:43 am
“I’ve never seen Glee, but by Mr. Peterman’s own admission of it containing homosexuality, it seems reasonable to conclude it is not a wholesome Christian show.”
Um, Guilt, by that standard BJ should not allow anyone to read the Scriptures.
by Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:45 am
So, we can’t watch Glee because it has reprehensible sexual acts, but we will loudly laud a man who illegally covered up reprehensible sexual acts? Inappropriate, I know, but I can’t help but chuckle.
by Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:49 am
Yeah, me to.
by Voluntary Outcast on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:46 am
I hope he doesn’t give up the fight.
Do right Christopher Peterman!
by Altar Ego on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:50 am
Irony: When BJU rebells against Governmental “Authority” it is declared Righteous.
When a student questions BJU’s “authority” it is great sin and must be put out of the camp!
Whatever BJU does is good and righteous therefore any hint of non-compliance or deviation from the path of “authority” will result in massive, calculated retalliation by the Ministry of Love in room 101.(or the Dean of Men’s office whichever is more convenient) Remember, we have always been at war with Eastasia.
by Don on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:36 am
Truth is not inappropriate
by Don on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:39 am
That’s the best one-line summary I’ve heard.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:44 am
Yeah, my daughter (current student) told me about that. I’m sure when they planned the student body program weeks ago, they had no idea how ironic their choice would become. I am surprised Triplestyx didn’t demand they cut it at the last minute. This is just another example of their hypocrisy–pretending to be “normal” on the surface, but operating in an entirely different way.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:47 am
But their idea of “doing right” is extremely messed up.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:52 am
I hope he DOES take them to court. We all know it’s not about the rules, it how the vague rules are applied only where THEY want them applied. It seems like all Chris really needs to prove it that he was singled out. Surely there have been other BJU students who have watched GLEE!
by Maggie on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:58 am
As a current BJU employee, I was saddened, but not surprised, by this turn of events. Anyone who thinks the University’s mindset is changing is seriously misled. Although on the surface they have given the impression they have loosened up and are more forgiving/accepting of differences in the brethren, don’t believe it for an instant. Yes, BJIII is still at the helm, and the most vocal of the bunch to express the “old paths” way of thinking. But the younger members of the admin are also of this same persuasion (whether by ignorance or coercion, I’m not always sure). The only positive thing I can see from this is that BJU will continue to get bad publicity, and when there are only 100 students enrolling for fall semester, they will finally have to close up shop. I continue to pray that they will see the light before then, but honestly, I don’t see that happening.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:01 am
I’d be curious to know what the numbers have been for incoming freshman. Have they been trending downward? Is overall enrollment down?
by Just Exhaled on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:19 am
I watch this and have a thousand regrets that I didn’t do the same as he’s doing at the ifb school I attended. Things going on, right in front of me and to me, that I just let go in the name of protecting God’s ministry. Stay strong, Christopher. You’re the voice for many of us!
by Jo Ward on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:23 am
Oh, yes, enrollment is on a steady decline. I don’t have projected numbers for the fall, but they are very concerned. But not enough to make changes that really matter.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:24 am
Yeah, I think the definition of bitter is holding a grudge for months over valid criticism, and extracting a far steeper revenge than warranted at a time you clearly targeted to impact the individual the most harmful way you can and leave no room for anyone to benefit. Somehow these are the people that feel like everyone else is bitter?
by RobM on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:30 am
Just to put this out there to those encouraging Chris to sue. Doesn’t anyone see how unbiblical that advice is and how damamging it can be to the body of Christ? See I Corinthians 6:1-11 where Paul gives a very strong argument against suing fellow-brethren. I am not saying the administration at BJ was right, I am just pointing out that whether or not you agree with BJ, the fact remains that they are part of the body of Christ and so are you. There is true harm done to the whole body and risks taken when disputes among Christians are put before the unsaved. Incidentally, I feel that way not just about the matter of suing, but in the involvement of media, etc as a whole in trying to exact “justice” against a brother.
by what's right? on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:43 am
P.S. “Unless they’ve been living under a rock…” Never underestimate how many people in fundyland are living under rocks.
by BJUGrad on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:45 am
The following language from the BJU catalog ought to give pause to any prospective student, parent, or pastor:
“The University may request withdrawal of any student at any time, who, in the opinion of
the University, does not fit the spirit of the institution, regardless of whether or not he conforms to specific rules and regulations of the University.”
In other words, “We can dork you over any way we want, and you have no defense. Sucks to be you!”
(source: http://www.bju.edu/academics/catalogs/ug06.pdf, bottom of Page 12)
by Michael Kreger on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:55 am
As a former BJU employee, I agree with your post completely. Some readers will not realize the courage and risk you take by posting your frank comments. I still love and pray for my BJU colleagues who I believe are there for the reason I was, their personal ministries to God and the students. The administration, however, has much to account for. I encourage you to consider how attending BJU may affect your children. It took its toll on mine. But God’s grace is greater!
by BJUGrad2 on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:56 am
This is just devastating. The tactics employed by BJU are akin to a police state. This is exactly why I’m heading out of this movement. Religious and controlling spirts reign here.
by johnthecorinth on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:11 am
That’s because “changes that really matter” = “being compromising liberals” to a place like this. Having only 100 students enroll for a fall semester wouldn’t be because they were doing anything wrong, it would just be a further example of how “morally corrupt” America is. They’d close because they’re so spiritual and no one else is.
Arrogance. No other word for it.
by Mag on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:15 am
One could argue that a university is not “a brother.” Unless you think a university has an individual, soul that is.
by Darrell on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:16 am
Chris’ home life is quite sad.
by Dan Keller on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:18 am
Just an FYI – Chris has all of his meetings with the Dean of Men and the dormitory supervisor recorded and those recordings will, at some time, be released. I’ve heard some of them and they are bone-chilling scary.
by Dan Keller on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:22 am
As one who was a victim at EIGHT and was similarly hushed. This makes my blood boil.
by MEEEE on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:40 am
So what you are saying is that no matter what the university does, it gets carte blanc protection against legal proceedings because of this verse?
If the world looks on Christ with contempt it is not because someone called out the actions of Bob Jones University.
Yet, we can see the actions of this so-called “Christian” university being more in line with what the world even looks on with contempt. ie pettiness, retribution, revenge, and cult-like behavorial change tactics.
by Don on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:44 am
OK, but that isn’t the issue here, is it?
by Big Gary on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:14 am
The harm to the serious grave irrecoverable damage to the Body of Christ is what would happen if Chris sued. Not BJU’s reprehensible defending & promoting Chuck Phelps or pettily expelling a student in a way to maximize the personal damage to him & his family? This is where the major damage is?
by RobM on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:20 am
Which did the Beej student say had nothing to do with it, “Glee” or Chuck Phelps?
I’m just curious.
by Big Gary on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:28 am
Apparently you have to “join” CNN’s website in order to vote.
That’s the only reason I didn’t vote for the story to be on CNN.
by Big Gary on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:30 am
VERY interesting!
I don’t see how a “Glee” parody makes sense if you haven’t seen the show.
For that matter, I don’t see how the Bob Jones overseers knew it contains “dancing, short skirts, and homosexuality” if THEY haven’t watched the show.
So, 50 demerits to the entire student body, faculty, and staff, I guess.
by Big Gary on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:35 am
The attitudes that fellow Christians should be somehow above reproach and/or that corrupt practices in Christian institutions should be kept in the dark are major reasons that many people in “the world” reject Christianity and think of Christians as hypocrites.
by Big Gary on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:45 am
That was funny! True, the school doesn’t have a soul, but is made up of people who do. The Church doesn’t have a soul either, but is called the bride of Christ because it, too, is made up of people. I am not saying anyone should be let off the hook just because they are Christians. Those who do wrong will get their punishment from God, it is not necessarily up to us. I am just saying that there is danger in bringing non-Christians into something between a Christian and this christian University. As for the Chuck Phelps situation, I am not personally familiar enough with tha situation (meaning I was not there nor do I personally know any of the persons involved, I only know what I have read from both sides of the story.) to address it with authority, but he did do some things wrong. He has since admitted where he was wrong…where does grace and forgiveness come in for him? Again, he was wrong, BJ has done some things wrong, Not a single one of us has made perfect decisions 100% of the time. Anyway, I have to stop now, it takes way too long to do this on my phone!
I have to get off here and get back to my family.
by what's right? on Apr 28, 2012 at 10:54 am
Oh, one more thing, I am not saying anyone, Christian or not, who does wrong is above reproach. Nor do I think wrongdoing should be hidden, just that we need to trea those who do wrong, especially Christians, with the same love and respect that we would want to be treated if/when we do wrong.
by what's right? on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:08 am
“That was funny! True, the school doesn’t have a soul, but is made up of people who do.”
I wonder sometimes, at least whether if any of them have a heart.
Jim K.
by Jim K. on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:11 am
@what’s right? You’re possibly falling trap to the “shoot the messenger” mentality. The sin is not in telling people that BJU was perfectly fine to have a morally bankrupt man such as Phelps on its board. It’s the sin itself that is the problem, not Chris talking about it, or seeking justice through a law suit. If this organization cared one iota for rape victims, none of this would be happening today. Chris would never have had to contemplate a law suit. Don’t shoot the messenger. Make the leaders at BJU accountable.
by MKXcomm on Apr 28, 2012 at 12:24 pm
One baffling characteristic of BJU is its tacit understanding that nobody REALLY adheres to their rules. The campus is rife with (authority-sanctioned) pop culture references and parodies. It’s like a huge joke, but I’m not sure who’s playing it or who they’re playing it on. As one of the few students whose parents actually DID raise her in line with BJU’s official ascetic policies, I tended to think it was a joke on me.
by Jenny Haniver on Apr 28, 2012 at 12:24 pm
I am always reluctant for Christians to sue other Christians, but BJU and its supporters are quick to say, “This is a private college. If you don’t like it, leave.” This kind of attitude that says, “We can do whatever we want, and if you don’t like it, go away” is NOT a Christian spirit. To me, if they want the privileges of being treated as a brother in Christ, they need to follow Scriptural guidelines, especially in relationship with people who do not agree with them.
They insist on ZERO questioning and complete compliance with “griping not tolerated”; they refuse to respond with humility when challenged. They lord it over the students as an unquestionable authority that denies any dissent. They do not act as equal parts of the same body. (I’m not saying they can’t have rules; I’m describing the spirit behind the implementation of these rules.)
If they are primarily a business with the purpose of making money, then they shouldn’t be demanding other believers treat them as if they are a church.
by pastor's wife on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:19 pm
The entire premise of Christians not suing each other is based on the idea that there is some internal court of law to handle disputes within the church.
But BJU and other such institutions acknowledge no authority or mediation. There is no Bishop or council or board to whom students can go to ask for justice.
by Darrell on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:22 pm
That IS a scary statement. When one considers human depravity and the corrupting nature of power, one ought to think twice before giving so much time and money to a place that seems to exercise so very much authority with so little accountability.
by pastor's wife on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Exactly.
by Former Fundie Lite on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:46 pm
“the fact remains that they are part of the body of Christ and so are you. There is true harm done to the whole body and risks taken when disputes among Christians are put before the unsaved.”
To this, I say: “if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you offense, pluck it out.”
In other words, BJU needs to change or else it needs to close. And if a public stink is the only thing that will bring about either change or closure, so be it.
by tatortotcassie on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:54 pm
Guilt Ridden, I so wish “voting with or feet” would work as it should. One the one hand, some will never enter that school or schools like it (BJU is far too compromising for some fundamentalists). On the other hand, though, such protests will inevitably be viewed by some of the school’s hierarchy as evidence of the “corruption of the world” and they will wear their dwindling college rolls as badges of honor for their “Godly separation from the world”.
This whole thing is a quilted tragedy of everything that is wrong in the fundamental church today. Thank God Chris got out from under it.
by rodalena on Apr 28, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Chris is better off without his BJU degree. Degrees from unaccredited bible colleges are worthless in the real world.
The worst thing to me is the manipulation and mind games the university played all under the guise of “genuine concern”, “christian love”, and “spiritual guidance”. There is an evil there that is absolutely terrifying.
by rodalena on Apr 28, 2012 at 2:28 pm
That’s okay…It made it to the US CNN page anyway.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm
He’s not necessarily better of without that $80,000 (give or take) that BJU was more than willing to take from him.
by JoeR on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Bob Jones University is not a Christian and it is not a church. It is a business claiming to be run on Christian principles – but we know that is false.
There is no biblical reason not to sue them to make them accountable for not behaving as an ethical business should.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Don’t wait too long to release them to the public. Interest in this story is at a high.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Gary,
Chris had to pack his stuff fast. He put his stuff in storage and took 3 shirts. So, he doesn’t have much of a choice when filming the videos.
by Denise on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Don’t wait too long to release them to the public. Interest in this story is at a high.
I betcha there is a Dean who will pee his pants over this fact.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 28, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Godspeed, Chris. I’m sorry for the harassment and bullying you’ve endured, but I’m so impressed with your courage to speak up. I know that I wouldn’t have had the courage to do what you have done when I was a student. May the next part of your journey be a place of great encouragement and support.
by notdrinkingthekoolaid on Apr 28, 2012 at 4:47 pm
I found out years after an incident that I was almost one of those people. I was almost shipped a couple of weeks before I graduated for an off campus incident that didn’t involve the University or its name in any way. Probably the only thing that kept that from happening was that I was a town student, and had three relatively trouble free years. Probably because I did all of my TV watching in my home with no BoJo neighbors.
They don’t hide the fact that they can and will get rid of “undesirables”.
by UncleWilver on Apr 28, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Translation: We have covered our legal a**, so that we can kick you out if we don’t like you.
Yup. That sums it up. Poor guy. I feel for the disillusionment he will face after the publicity is done. I hope he will cling to the knowledge of Christ as he discards the religious garbage he’s experienced.
by Rebel? on Apr 28, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Your proposed method of dealing with BJU in this situation, ‘what’s right’, is actually the same one that BJU and other colleges would have anyone who disagrees with them use. “Don’t take any kind of action against us, legal or otherwise, no matter what we do to you or anyone else. Just trust God, no matter how ungodly and unchristian our actions become.” There is no justification for promoting inaction against corrupt leadership just because said leadership slaps the title “Christian” or “Bible-believing” onto itself. And as has been pointed out, BJU is an organization, not an individual, and so it doesn’t really fit the context of I Corinthians 6. The Bible does not excuse injustice just because it comes from an organization that claims to be Christian. God intended for human government (civil authorities) to restrain evil. Christian organizations don’t get a pass from that, even if it is other Christians their evil is directed against.
No one is suggesting that Christopher Peterman sue the school for millions of dollars or something over the top like that (at least I don’t think they are). The point is that the school be held accountable for its actions, and BJU has proved time and time again that they are far too arrogant to accept correction from any church or Christian. The “Do Right BJU” campaign is a perfect example of that.
by Mandy on Apr 28, 2012 at 6:08 pm
I think this was the best possible outcome since his degree’s value would be unlikely to be very high. The PR from this, and his DoRight campaign’s PR, should prove to be very valuable to an employer. Shows how much he overcame.
Strong job candidate if he plays this out right.
by Andy on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:38 pm
He said that the Chuck Phelps situation had nothing to do with the expulsion.
by MKXcomm on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:12 pm
@what’s right? If i stole $72,000 dollars and 4 years of life from another Christian, I would want to be sued.
by hushai on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:20 pm
Chris said that he earned and paid his own way to BJU. He even dropped out for a year and a half so he could work and have the money to pay his bill.
by Tikatu on Apr 28, 2012 at 10:39 pm
They had promised, on TV, that no one would be expelled or have any sort of retaliation for participating in the protest. So, they’d have to do the same thing to any other student as was done to Chris: a semester of hell with too many demerits all assigned at the last minute. Then expulsion or the “you can’t come back” letter over the summer. Possibly, they might extend it to next semester, with “spiritual probation” as soon as the targeted student hit campus.
by Tikatu on Apr 28, 2012 at 10:47 pm
I did catch the Single Ladies reference in that “student body.” I failed for some dumb reason to realize the whole thing was a Glee parody. I caught the musical thing, but not the Glee-specific thing. I did also get excited when the girl singing like Mercedes started belting it out and half the room started cheering.
Back to the Single Ladies thing, I noticed that reference right away and realized that some bozo Bojo totally missed that in the “faculty check.” I was reminded by a classmate on some ministry team that his team’s performance had to be checked by faculty for appropriateness. Either “Student Body” is exempt or the faculty checker people are idiotic or two-faced.
by Waldo on Apr 28, 2012 at 10:55 pm
@rodalena-
I have to disagree a bit with your assertion that a BJU diploma is worthless. I am wholeheartedly in agreement with today’s post and believe that their actions were reprehensible. But that being said, both my husband and I have recent BJU diplomas (within the last 7 years) and we both have been able to get jobs. I even went on to get a masters degree at another college. None of my close friends have been denied a job or continuing education because of their BJU degrees. (I’m sure there are some who have experienced this but I’m just speaking from personal experience. The problem I ran into was when I looked into transfering to another college as a sophomore, nowhere would except my credits so I was forced to stay or start over.) My husband and I both feel that the actual training we received in our specific fields of study was quality. After having gone to graduate school and having worked at several different colleges, I can say for certain that the educational standards at BJU are above average. However, I do not agree with the way they equate excellence with godliness. Or attitude with godliness. The list is long. I could go on and on.
I too was subjected to the intimidation tactics of the administration. I just didn’t fit their cookie cutter mold. It was a very long 4 years there. But honestly God meant it for good because it was the beginning of a long road away from fundyism.
by infundyrehab on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:46 pm
I was about to protest that it couldn’t possibly be $80,000. Then I went on their website to check tuition costs–$18,000 a year? Holy smokes their tuition, room, and board has gone up! That’s a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a slightly accredited degree from a mediocre college.
by RenéeD on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:56 pm
“He’s not necessarily better of without that $80,000 (give or take) that BJU was more than willing to take from him.”
Re: Chris is welcome to transfer to Liberty, and to transfer in many (if not most)of those credits. I am sure that Liberty would be glad to have him as a student. I have always been proud to be a 3 time graduate of LU.
by Dr. Michael E. Schmidt on Apr 29, 2012 at 1:11 am
gotta link to this musical?
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 29, 2012 at 1:26 am
I knew Tina when she came to Colorado after her ordeal. I don’t know exactly what happened in New Hampshire as I wasn’t there, but here are a couple of observations:
The 20/20 report makes it seem like her life was very isolated and lonely while she was in Colorado. I was quite a bit younger that she was, but from my perspective she seemed to have a number of friends and wasn’t shunned. My only thought about this is when it says “her friends weren’t allowed to contact her” it must have been referring to her old friends in New Hampshire and not her Colorado friends. Also, the family she stayed with were extremely generous with their time, love and resources to her (as were many in the Colorado church that she attended). She was home schooled, but did activities with the school I attended (I’m pretty sure I remember she participated in the school band but I certainly remember that we would carpool together when she attended special activities at the school). I did not get the impression that she was ostracized or sheltered away from people.
The report also made it sound like she had no say in giving the baby up for adoption. I don’t know exactly how much pressure she received about this, but she did come to my house afterwards and showed us pictures of the baby and the adoption couple. She seemed genuinely thrilled about the new family and seemed happy that her baby was going to a good home. It was a long time ago, but that’s what I remember anyway.
I’m no fan of the misogyny and male dominance of the IFB culture, but if you watch the ABC report objectively, you will notice a definite effort to paint every IFC church in the worst possible light so be aware that the information is definitely presented to support a particular viewpoint. Tina was a friend and I sympathize with her, but I was disappointed that my church in Colorado got dragged through the mud after lots of people tried to show true Christian love to her. There are some bad apples in the fundamental circle to be sure, but it isn’t fair to lump all the churches together (or all the people).
As to BJU, there are legends about people being pulled out of the graduation line waiting to walk and being denied their degrees….but I don’t know if that’s true or not. One semester was plenty for me, but my parents and I compromised and I ended up staying a full year before attending a secular school. I feel badly for Chris, but to be fair, I only attended for one year but even I know that watching “Glee” in public in Greenville is a balsy move if you attend BJU as those things have a way of getting back to the administration (especially if you know you are being targeted). Even though I didn’t agree with the standards I was still familiar with the expectations of the school enough to know they would have issues with Glee. Maybe it’s because I witnessed people being punished for much less than Glee, but that doesn’t seem smart to me. If I knew I was on the watch list and there were only a few weeks left until graduation I would be laying low. But I don’t want to be too hard on Chris as it sounds like the school was looking for a reason. Anyway, there were some bad things about BJU, but also some good. However I’m very glad that I went a different route. Good luck to you Chris.
by M on Apr 29, 2012 at 3:40 am
Chris, thank you for standing up for what you believe in. You certainly are a brave soul with a strong conscience and moral character. I applaud you for your actions.
by formerHACgirl on Apr 29, 2012 at 7:56 am
May I ask what your majors were? I do know personally of friends in Education, nursing and Accounting who had to start over with degrees and go to accredited universities. These are recent graduates and graduates from 20+ years ago.
I had trouble applying for my National Boards from the National Board of Professional Teaching Standards. You must have a regionally accredited undergrad degree to apply. I was finally allowed to do my portfolios and assessments but not without a lot of work trying to get them to accept me.
I also have assessed for the NBPTS for 5 years. Every year you reapply to assess and the question asking if you attended an undergraduate regionally accredited university is always there. I have over 50 credits after my M.Ed degree from a regionally accredited school but they always ask about undergrad. There IS a definite problem with those 3 majors and it will co tinue to happen.
by Denise on Apr 29, 2012 at 7:56 am
I hate this sneaky middle ground where certain people at BJU play games – “wink, wink” – with popular culture. It’s not honest or straightforward. BJU should either admit that popular culture is within the realms of Christian liberty and stop censuring other people when they have standards that differ from theirs or AVOID IT ALTOGETHER.
I remember seeing a society poster at BJA that said, “Things that make you go Hmmmmmm”. (It was back in the early 90s.) Whoever made that poster was aware of music that was supposed to be off-limits to BJ students. I hated the hypocrisy of that. Either avoid it altogether (or at least use utmost caution in never mentioning it publicly) or allow it, but playing a double game where students could get shipped over listening to Casting Crowns but get away with inserting sly references to night club dance music in college productions — it’s ridiculous!
by pastor's wife on Apr 29, 2012 at 8:03 am
There may be individual churches who are exceptions to the rule but it is the IFB network and the general overall movement that lends itself to, and promotes, authoritarian behavior.
Tina may have been loved and cared for by your church in Colorado but you miss the point: Why was she there in the first place? Why didn’t her own church take her and love and care for her?
That begs the question, “To what extent did the ones in Colorado know what really went on?” If they knew why didn’t they report her rape to authorities? How much did the pastor in Colorado know? If he knew, then why did he agree to participate?
See, the mentality of the movement promotes “blame the victim” behavior. Was she shipped to Colorado for her benefit or to be out of site and out of mind in order to protect the rapist and the reputation of one man’s ministry? (all under the banner of “protecting the cause of Christ”… how much more damning have the results of the coverup been now that the story has been made public?)
by Don on Apr 29, 2012 at 8:21 am
I used Abeka when I first started Homeschooling my 3 and I finally decided it was too hard after 2nd grade. Not only that, but it’s SO expensive. I too didn’t like giving them my money since they are SO legalistic.
I now use Saxon Math and Sing Spell Read Write for language arts which my children actually enjoy.
I like the Charlotte Mason approach to education. School is FUN in my house!
by Mominator on Apr 29, 2012 at 8:26 am
I LOVE that he’s wearing a “Hollister” shirt since the wearing of Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister is explicitly forbidden in the handbooks!
by DoubleTrouble on Apr 29, 2012 at 8:57 am
Ooh, sorry. I meant that I caught their overt reference to musicals. I didn’t record it unfortunately. I did however notice that a woman (probably not a student) sitting farther down to my left did have a camcorder out. Perhaps she can come forward and provide video footage.
by Waldo on Apr 29, 2012 at 12:46 pm
What’s really weird is that I watched some Glee episodes online ON CAMPUS via their special, God-Approved(C) Filtered Internet. Something about fox.com that still worked at the time. I think since then the site has been blocked, but it was working earlier this semester. But then for all I know the admins are biding their time to step on another student after he pays his bills in toto.
by Waldo on Apr 29, 2012 at 12:50 pm
I am so sorry. I’m not sure that BJ has considered how their actions affect victims and the kind of message it sends out.
by Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist on Apr 29, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Those are fair questions and I wish I had more information on that myself. From what I know, it is well-established that Phelps did, in fact, contact the police while Tina was still in New Hampshire (more than once apparently?), so I wonder why the police did not launch a full investigation right away. Also, I think people in Colorado were acting with the understanding that the reason Tina was here was simply because her mother thought it would be best for her to get far away from the situation and Phelps simply set her up with living arrangements. So on the basis that authorities had already been contacted and it was Tina’s mother’s wishes that she was here (for Tina’s own benefit), I suppose most people felt that the only thing left to do was love her and include her in the church family, which they did. Was the whole congregation deceived about why Tina was here? It’s not impossible but in my opinion it is a stretch. I wish I could answer your question about what details my former pastor knew, but I don’t know that information unfortunately.
Again, I was young (late elementary school I think) so most of my memories are just having fun with Tina in the car ride to school and I didn’t learn more about her until I got a bit older. I agree with you completely that Tina was wronged overall and I don’t wish to downplay that. Obviously the whole situation was mishandle because here we are still discussing it. My point was simply that some churchgoers in Colorado took heat that wasn’t necessarily deserved as they were sincerely trying to do their best for Tina with the information they had. I just remember something different than what ABC insinuated about Tina’s social life in Colorado and it makes me wonder if anything else was misrepresented. As with any situation, it’s very difficult to get an entire picture from a single source of information. Though I agree with you about the problem of authoritarian behavior and victim blaming in IFB culture I’m just trying to be as objective as I can about Tina’s situation (and Chris’s) and give credit where it is due.
by M on Apr 29, 2012 at 2:25 pm
What kind of loving person would have a rape victim write a letter of apology to her rapist’s wife?
That happened in Colorado.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 29, 2012 at 5:19 pm
http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD55121488/2020-48-victims-forced-confession%20entire%20episode
For anyone needing a refresher on the 20/20 expose’ that started it all.
by Don on Apr 29, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Hah! I had no idea! That’s funny!
by Big Gary on Apr 29, 2012 at 7:49 pm
In some countries of medieval Europe, a person could claim clerical privilege, which meant immunity from civil and criminal courts, if he (the clergy being all-male then) could read at least one sentence of Latin. Many scoundrels apparently got away with outrageous crimes that way.
We’ve never had that system in the U.S., and I’m glad we don’t.
by Big Gary on Apr 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm
My former fundy church is of the BJU worship kind and it’s the same.. “the tacit understanding that no one follows their rules” hypocrisy at it’s finest. But they don’t have the cojones to just drop all the rules and get shunned from the IFB hirarchy (sp?) . Oh wait, they are not connected… nevermind…
by headnotbowedeyeswideopen on Apr 29, 2012 at 9:00 pm
It is so much easier to defend your point when you refuse to even consider what the other side of the story might be. Nobody on this entire blog(including me) has any idea about the whole story so all are commenting out of turn. Here are a few thoughts:
1)Many people with educations from BJ are highly successful in all walks of life (Doctors, lawyers, accountants, nurses, engineers, law enforcement, teachers, government officials, military, etc.) To stay otherwise is to mislead.
2)I would urge you to go to pluggedinonline.com and read reviews of individual shows of Glee. (this also shows how someone can know what a show is about without actually watching it . . . for the person who thought all the faculty should be given demerits for knowing what Gless is about) After you read the reviews, come back and tell me if you still think the demerits for watching Glee were inappropriate. No Christian has any place watching that trash. As someone said earlier, Chris should not have been surprised at all that he got demerits for this.
3)Proverbs 18:13 – commenting on a situation as if you know the whole story before you have complete knowledge of the situation is foolish.
4)For those who are employees of BJU and you are commenting negatively against BJU, your cowardice is very sad. Taking money from your Christian employer while trashing them behind the scenes is about as disloyal of a thing that you can do. If you don’t like your employer, either speak up and take the consequences or just quietly leave.
by One-sided on Apr 29, 2012 at 9:22 pm
BINGO!! I have BINGO!!
by MKXcomm on Apr 29, 2012 at 9:29 pm
The long and short of it, unfortunately, is that this young man knew what he was getting into when he chose to pursue his education at BJU. Plenty of good people have come out of that school, DESPITE the inane regulations and rules. If the fine print says they can expel someone for no concrete reason, then all of this is a non-issue.
by Marcus on Apr 29, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Maybe it’s a non-issue to you, but probably not to someone out four years of room, board, and tuition, with credits that generally don’t transfer to state schools. It looks more like a license to steal a year’s tuition from students who might not follow every one of the rules, including the unwritten ones, to the administration’s satisfaction.
by That Other Jean on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Congratulations, MKXcomm! You win!
by Big Gary on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:23 pm
No… God doesn’t reside in the fine-print.
This issue is not just about one student and a TV show. It is about the institutionalized marketing of religion and the power brokers in charge. It is about claiming to be holier than thou on the one hand and hiding behind the mantra “that the cause of Christ will be harmed,” if anyone thinks/acts contrary to, or questions their authority. I know I harp on this over and over but it is so relevant: “When god is the only one you are accountable to, then you will soon become the that god.” At that point you can rationalize anything you do in the name of Christ. Just ask Tomas’ de Torquemada.
by Don on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm
Oh, so very true.
I wonder how many Fundy U’s rule handbooks will be modified due to this situation.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 29, 2012 at 11:12 pm
One-sided: Should everyone at BJU who watches HGTV get slapped with 50 demerits too? That is a very pro-gay network. I have seen several shows featuring gay couples. How about the music/drama students and faculty that put on the Glee parody show? Will they get 50 demerits each? How about the audience?
Or was Chris singled out because he pointed out the sin of BJU administration?
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 29, 2012 at 11:34 pm
I think Chris will have a good case of showing BJU acted in bad faith toward him.
by Used-to-be-Fundy on Apr 29, 2012 at 11:36 pm
In a way, what’s right, I agree. My church is going through some legal crap, and taking the issues to the courts just makes a huge mess. (Not that they shouldn’t be held accountable).
But this is about a degree that he worked hard for. Not necessarily a dispute between Christians, but between a student and an organization.
by Easterlily241 on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:07 am
Yes, Chris went there willingly, knew the rules, and knew he could get in trouble for watching Glee, etc etc.
I do know for a personal fact (at my former FU), that the staff kids/relatives got out of anything. The younger brother of one of the teachers regularly had up to 200 demerits, which should have resulted in expulsion. Over and over in the three semesters I was there. He’s still there.
However, one girl I know had her boyfriend stop by her (very public) office several times, and she was expelled because they were “off-campus dates.” I was thrilled she was out of there, don’t get me wrong.
If Chris was one of their pets, he would have gotten away with a slap on the wrists for watching Glee or coming in late. That’s just how it works.
by Easterlily241 on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:23 am
Well, the Torquemada reference was unexpected……
by UncleWilver on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:26 am
for your viewing plesurehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbcyiFt5VEs
by Don on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:30 am
I got kicked out of BJU recently for similar reasons-different, but equally inane. I can say from experience that BJU doesn’t see their own hypocrisy because those in power and favor (the in-crowd, including students, do NOT experience pressure like this. For them, BJU is truly paradise-not a dystopian nightmare. When the rest of us (like me) complain about the oppression, they just don’t get it because they’ve never experienced it.
I have known many wonderful people at BJU; the problem is not all the people, it’s the spiritual hierarchy and those who occupy it.
When I got kicked out, I was not allowed on campus for a whole semester, nor were my on-campus friends allowed to socialize with me off-campus. I had to attend counseling to reverse this policy. I also had to endure extensive counseling in order to re-enroll as a student, which I DID. After months of this, I was told that I had been determined “not spiritually mature enough” to return as a student, but if I submitted a journal of my daily devotions for the next two weeks and memorized X number of verses, I might have a chance. At that point, I saw the light and ran as far as I could. SO glad they didn’t let me back in.
I do have to blame myself (along with Chris) for the fact that we got kicked out. We removed our masks, and we knew full well that this is the price they exact. We really don’t have any ground to stand on.
by excommunicated from Fundyland on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:48 am
I was actually thinking of this–about 40 seconds in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI
But thanks for the Mel Brooks viewing pleasure.
by UncleWilver on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:58 am
Are not all fundamentalist colleges and universities chiefly engaged in one over-arching activity? (Beyond simply making money.)Isn’t the whole game to train a new generation of Christian taliban agitators and enforcers?
by Gary in FL on Apr 30, 2012 at 10:34 am
Because otherwise, if the goal were simply to offer higher education in a Christian setting, there are tons of non-fundamentalist colleges and universities to choose from. One could earn a valuable degree, and go to school with and make friends with a wide variety of Believers, without coming out prepped for fundy mind-control.
by Gary in FL on Apr 30, 2012 at 10:40 am
excommunicated,
Thanks for sharing. I’m glad to read that you are taking responsibility for what happened. Obviously just about everyone here believes BJU was way out of line in what they did. But the world is full of predators and self-righteous pricks and part of becoming an adult is learning that you have to look out for one’s self and one’s own because it is unlikely anyone else will.
There is one thing that bothers me, however: you talk about removing the mask. We all wear masks to the world but I think it’s best to avoid any institution that forces you to wear a false mask in the way that BJU, PCC, HAC, etc., does. We all have things that the general public doesn’t need to know about, we all have opinions and habits that could cause offense, but there is a difference between discretion and a double life. In my experience with Fundamentalism, they will not let you be yourself.
And on a tangent, I feel that a lot of these attempts to force BJU to reform reveal that the people behind them still operate in ways we identify with Fundamentalism: namely being controlling and feeling it’s our job to force people to change. We can speak out to warn people not to go there, we can report actual criminal activity to the police, we can offer legal counsel to victims, but once a person or institution refuses to hear and respond to grievances with them it is not our place to try to connive or force them to change. That is the Holy Spirit’s job and trying to fill it as a human being is exhausting.
by Elijah Craig on Apr 30, 2012 at 11:34 am
I doubt they are going to be aloud to keep that if they ever want real accreditation. That is really sad, though, not to mention exceptionally juvenile, to have a “We can do whatever we want and you can’t do anything about it” clause in their volumes of rules.
by Mandy on Apr 30, 2012 at 1:58 pm
My understanding of the story was that the blame for the cover up was on on Chuck Phelps, Ernie Willis, and a few others within that church (I personally find the fact that he called the police multiple times hard to believe, as the police don’t just ignore such things, that combined with the fact that he made Tina “confess” before the church that she had committed sexual immorality, rather then admitting that she was raped).
Was the church in Colorado even aware that she had been raped? If they, like the majority of the church members back at Tina’s home church, were led to believe that she was pregnant because she and a boy around her own age had just gone too far then there would have been no reason to expect them to call the police. Her home church certainly wasn’t going to tell them, and Tina had been shamed into keeping silent about it.
by Mandy on Apr 30, 2012 at 2:41 pm
No, it isn’t a non-issue. If BJU claimed to just be a secular college, then maybe it would be, because their actions would reflect on them alone and no one else. Unfortunately, when they do things like this and claim that they have every right to do it, they say that they are not just legally right in doing so but also right before God in doing it. That is simply not the case.
by Mandy on Apr 30, 2012 at 2:56 pm
@One-sided. No, you are kidding me? Do you really think that Chris’ expulsion had absolutely nothing to do with his protest of the presence of Chuck Phelps? Really?
by Bob M on Apr 30, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Your exegesis just leveled up.
by Alex Madlinger on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm
I concur. As a history major I’m receiving awesome training. My teachers have their PhDs from places like Emory.
by Alex Madlinger on Apr 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm
I don’t know how many people actually knew that Tina had been raped or just assumed (or led to believe) she had gotten in trouble with a boyfriend (again, I was too young to know what was going on). For all I know the circle that knew could have been extremely limited. All I know is that I personally remember Tina as happy and involved in the church and then I read and heard reports that she was isolated and lonely in Colorado and it doesn’t add up in my mind. She sang in the choir and volunteered in the nursery. She interacted with the teens in the church and from my school (I remember on a day she visited the school she dressed up for spirit week – it was pajama day.) If she was unhappy and lonely she did a good job of hiding it. Her mother came to visit her a few times to check up on her and make sure she was doing well. My overwhelming impression was that everyone (including Tina) was in agreement that it was a good thing for Tina that she was there and the church family was very accepting and loving to her. That’s all I’m going to say about it as that’s all I know and this blog is more about Chris’s story than Tina’s anyway.
by M on May 1, 2012 at 1:52 am
(3 years at BJU) — BJU isn’t a church. It’s a for-profit SC Corporation. These idiots who always come running with the “Christians can’t sue Christians” verse to defend BJU make me insane. BJU and specifically BOB JONES III and Bob Wood have no problem using their bank to loan students money at the maximum allowable rate by law. They also have no problem using the legal system to sic collection agencies on ex-students who fall behind on their loan payments.
When BJU closes down, or is sold, in the near future a lot of people will be shocked at how much money the Jones family walks away with. They (BJU) are the money changers in the Temple. They hide behind Christianity while thry steal student’s money by accepting it for months while KNOWING they aren’t going to let them graduaxte. Since the school was started, I would guess there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of students expelled in the last few days of April who’s fates had been pre-decided months before.
They funded churches with the sole purpose of creating feeder institutions. They fly on private planes and collect art while paying their employees what people make working part-time at McDonalds. Not one of their precious paintings will ever be sold to feed the hungry, pay a poor kid’s tuition, or allow someone who has spent 30 years of their life there to keep their job. They are arrogant, classless, and have no integrity. If God ever wanted the place open, I have no doubt He doesn’t now. That’s why they are circling the drain. Good riddance.
by After Glow on May 1, 2012 at 3:08 am
yeah . . . my act of taking off the mask was admitting to “smooching” (their word, not mine) with my now-husband, hundreds of miles from BJU, during a break. The really sad part of all this is that I was a grad student. Still being babysat, apparently. Of course they advised us to “gather to ourselves a lot of strong Christians who could point us in the right direction” and to ” never be alone together; spend time in groups but don’t give occasion to your flesh.” And then they told us that none of our BJU friends could socialize with us, on or off campus, under penalty of their own expulsion. And of course since BJU is a bubble, we didn’t HAVE any non-BJU friends. We had both been living in Greenville, in the BJU circles, for years, and we were suddenly alienated from EVERYONE we loved and cared about. Such doublespeak I have never seen, before or since.
by excommunicated from Fundyland on May 1, 2012 at 7:58 am
Stories like this are so important. I seem to have read a spate of stories on fundamentalists protecting their own in rape cases this last week. They’re all horrifying. Please keep reporting them.
by Jonny on May 1, 2012 at 9:36 am
excommunicated,
I am very sorry that happened to you. There is nothing at all wicked about what you did.
I do hope you heed their advice, however, and find some strong Christians who can point you in the right direction. And by that I mean someone who isn’t associated or sympathetic to BJU in any way.
by Elijah Craig on May 1, 2012 at 9:49 am
For a school that spends so much of it’s time condemning Catholics, they sure do a lot of excommunicating.
by After Glow on May 1, 2012 at 9:52 am
yes, we eloped to a different state and left our world behind. No announcement, no explanation until after we were gone (except for a small circle of trusted friends). Everyone else we knew was opposed to this unholy union of sinners-we had not been sufficiently “counseled” and “discipled” to ensure that we were prepared to be turned loose in the arena of marriage. Heavens to Betsy-I hadn’t even been keeping a journal of my daily devotions! Leaving behind the “life” we had established in Gville was one of the hardest things I have ever done-but it was so worth it. Surprise-there are loving, godly Christian people outside of Greenville and BJU! And now I can attend graduate school and be treated as a responsible adult at the same time. Not to mention, I now have the privilege of working toward an accredited degree with some real-world value. And we can both earn real paychecks, not McSalaries from an employer whose only “benefit” offered to employees is the benefit of running their personal life for them. Sometimes I still pinch myself.
by excommunicated from Fundyland on May 1, 2012 at 10:20 am
True. Just a point of view. It is interesting reading the comments.
by what's right? on May 1, 2012 at 12:13 pm
I’m looking back to where I said his protests had “nothing to do with it.” Can’t find where I said that.
by One-sided on May 1, 2012 at 11:12 pm
I feel so sorry for Christopher Peterman. EVERYONE at BJ (or almost everyone) posts lyrics, watches shows like Glee, texts during chapel, etc. None of them get caught because none of them are being stalked like he was. No one can live like they wanted us to live unless you are deep inside their bubble and have never been out of it, and then I feel REALLY sorry for you.
I went to BJ for music lessons in elementary school and for college for 1 year and then I left because I couldn’t stand it. I’m very thankful I got out of there when I could. Kudos to Christopher Peterman for standing up to the monster, but I agree with the author of this post–best to do it AFTER you’ve completed your degree/classes.
by Ex-Fundy #30412 on May 1, 2012 at 11:24 pm
I know I said I wasn’t going to say any more, but I can’t stop thinking about it. Follow the logic with me:
Fact – Chuck Phelps reported the matter to the police (documented). Lets say for arguments sake that it was only once.
Fact – Tina was moved to Colorado.
Fact – Tina was not isolated or hidden while in Colorado. She was out in the open and interacting with people. (Based on my own personal observations).
Even if only reported once, why was an investigation not conducted? If the police were investigating, why would Tina’s move to Colorado have completely halted an investigation? Why would her presence in Colorado have prevented an investigation? I can only think of two explanations:
The police couldn’t find Tina: Not an acceptable excuse in my mind on the basis that Tina was not isolated or hidden and both her mother and the person who made the report were available for contact in New Hampshire. Either they weren’t trying very hard or they are terrible investigators.
Tina was now out of their jurisdiction: So nothing could be done? Basically the police said “not our problem”.
Unless there is an explanation that I’m not considering, logically, the Concord police were either incompetent or otherwise chose not to investigate. Take your pick, either way they dropped the ball.
So why does the media report that Tina was hidden in Colorado out of reach of the police? She wasn’t. They could have contacted her anytime.
So what about the things like public confession and letter writing? I don’t know the details of those things. However, situations will almost always turn messy when law enforcement doesn’t step in and people start taking justice into their own hands.
Chuck Phelps admits that he should have been more aggressive to have Willis arrested. However, I would argue that because he reported a sexual relationship between and adult and a minor (even once), justice for Tina was ultimately the responsibility of the Concord Police Department and to say Phelps covered it up is inaccurate. I’m not going to speculate as to the morality of what he did or did not do while the police were informed but not investigating.
If anyone can answer my questions or has evidence to disprove anything I say, PLEASE share it as I have no interest in defending someone who has committed a crime. (Note: actual evidence and not media speculation). You may discredit my observations on the basis that I was only 9 at the time Tina was in Colorado (I did the math), but even if I wasn’t old enough to know the exact situation, I was old enough to remember Tina and the fact that she was not hidden. I don’t know every detail, but this is my conclusion based on what I know.
by M on May 2, 2012 at 10:49 am
I’m glad you take some of the blame for getting kicked out, but what about the blame for CHOOSING this horrible college in the first place? Whether or not you got kicked out, your money is what makes it possible for them to continue this behavior.
You had a choice of colleges. You picked the one that anyone with access to Google could learn was the least desirable and more heinous choice. You refer to it as “fundyland”, but what were you, if not a fundamentalist, to consciously choose to give your money and time to a place that treats human beings this way, supports causes that are unethical, and exists primarily to indoctrinate you (or support your pre-existing indoctrination) into fundamentalist obnoxiousness?
I don’t feel sorry for ANYONE who gets kicked out of BJU, because you were ignorant enough to apply and support them in the first place. You made it possible for them to be what they are.
Unless you had no choice, and your parents forced you to go, I can’t feel bad that you got screwed over in the process of going to a school that you knew teaches students to screw over everyone else.
by Vapula on May 3, 2012 at 9:23 am
I am always taken back by the way people use religious beliefs to control others. This is an ego based “holier than thou” attitude that smacks in the face of what real religious teachings are all about. Hopefully these events listed above will gain enough media momentum to detour future college students from studying at BJU.
by WWJD on May 3, 2012 at 9:31 am
Run with the fundamentalist, catch the fleas of ignorance.
by Vaylon Kenadell on May 3, 2012 at 9:46 am
Vapula-
at the ripe old age of 17, I somehow was not fully prepared to recognize what I was getting into by applying to BJU-especially since I grew up being taught that Christian education was the only option. BJU seemed the LEAST radical among my options (PCC, MBBC, and the like); and definitely the only Christian college with a program in my major. I was young and zealous- I wanted to participate in the mission which BJU claims to be on: excellent education in a Christian environment.
as far as the accusation that I “knew” what BJU does to people and how they “screw over” people: how could I? I was raised hundreds of miles from BJU; all I knew about it was distant echoes. Sure, as you say, I could have “googled” the school and find negative comments on the internet-but isn’t that true of any school?
By the way, once you arrive at BJU as a new recruit, you are quickly indoctrinated in the notion that you occupy a tiny bastion of righteousness in a world of wickedness; that the privacy invasion and bullying from the administration and student “leadership” (aka fully brainwashed subjects) is for your own good; that any resistance on your part to their actions is evidence of your bitter, rebellious, and very probably unsaved heart, and that you are receiving the best education available anywhere, and perhaps the only education worthy of the name. Besides, credits from the Bob are pretty darn hard to transfer out. You are immediately set to work towards rigorous goals, such as climbing the ladder of student leadership, getting elected to office in your society, throwing yourself body and soul into numerous extension ministries, and the list goes on. Your success in all of these activities is a measure of your spirituality and your worth; start questioning things and you will never succeed. You’d better climb, climb, that ladder and don’t look down.
Another thing that kept me at BJU as long as I stayed, even after I recognized the problems, was the fact that so many people there are truly wonderful, kind, and genuine. I know this sounds impossible, but I was there and I know. BJU is made up of some of really nice people on faculty and staff who are trapped by the hierarchical system (the administration and other powers-that-be). So why don’t they leave BJU and go work somewhere else? the answer is simple, if you think about it. BJU is at war with other Christian colleges, so they’d never get hired there. Real-world employers would laugh at their BJU qualifications and/or degrees. So they’re stuck. I would respect them more if they left the school, but I respect them immensely for who they are. I didn’t want to leave them.
Yes, I drank the koolaid, and yes, Bobby J took my money and made a fool of me before dumping me out on the street. But shouldn’t those who take advantage of impressionable young people be held responsible for their actions as well?
by excommunicated from Fundyland on May 3, 2012 at 10:37 am
So after talking with some people who also knew Tina when she was in Colorado (and were older than I was), this is what I have to say:
Tina Anderson:
Why did you not immediately press charges? We both know you and your mother were encouraged to press charges and you refused! How DARE you tell the media that Chuck Phelps and fundamentalism shamed you into silence. Maybe the police would have investigated if you had come forward, so why didn’t you? Were you embarrassed about something? Shame on you for playing the victim when you were not willing to press charges.
I looked up to you as a kid. My church loved you and treated you so well and then you grew up and turned against all the people who tried to help you. The Landrys paid your medical bills and gave you a place to live so you could get away from the situation in New Hampshire. Do you even remember me? I’m sorry you’ve had a difficult life and I’m sorry you were raped. But I do not want to be in your shoes when you answer to God for your lies to the media.
Chris – and everyone on this blog:
Do some more research before saying that Chuck Phelps hid Tina in Colorado – it’s not true. When Tina finally pressed charges years later, the police used the fact that Tina was out of their jurisdiction to cover their backsides when it came out that they were aware of a rape and did nothing. Tina’s mother wanted her to go to Colorado and Tina was happy to have her child go to a good home. (See my previous comments). She was never shamed at my church.
It baffles me that the police say they couldn’t do anything and nobody bothers to ask “well, how hard did they try?” They didn’t try. Nobody in the world is going to convince me that the police couldn’t find Tina in Colorado. I was only 9 but I knew her. They could have just summoned her back to New Hampshire. Maybe they would have taken it more seriously if Tina had come forward but she wouldn’t!
There IS conspiracy, but ironically, it is against the very person who is being blamed for conspiring. Legally, yes, Tina was in no way responsible for her rape. But legal law was NOT BEING ENFORCED because the police did nothing. Phelps blamed Tina and made her confess in front of the church. You mean he evaluated a criminal situation, assigned fault, and then acted on it? That’s the police’s job! Why was a pastor doing the police’s job?! Phelps should not have used church discipline against Tina and should have relentlessly contacted the police until they investigated. But to say he covered Tina’s rape is a LIE.
Now that I know the truth, I think it’s tolerant of the University to allow Chris to protest because they knew he was being mislead by the media. Like I said, my parents made me attend BJU for one year and then I left because I didn’t like it. But one thing I did learn there is that attitude is everything. I saw people get very harshly punished but also shown a lot of leniency all based on attitude. I don’t know Chris or why he was expelled but it makes me so angry that people are so misinformed about what really happened to Tina.
Wow. Incredible. I always knew something wasn’t right about the media’s story but I didn’t realize the conspiracy was so backwards.
by M on May 3, 2012 at 1:48 pm
“Why did you not immediately press charges?”
Pretty sure that God doesn’t like people who blame the victim, guy.
by rizzo on May 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm
While I sympathise with all the people who have been treated badly by the above mentioned institutions, I keep feeling that this is like a Jewish kid complaining he was kicked out of the SS! Gee people! You know what these places are like. You must have read their draconian conduct codes. Why do you want to be there? They don’t seem to be accredited, so when you leave you don’t really have a degree. Unless you want to become an entry level clergy person, of what use is attending the school. I’m not a “believer” so maybe my input isn’t wanted. But even so, there are many colleges that offer religious degrees and they MEAN something. Do your careers a favor. Leave these bogus schools and get an honest education.
by astroboi on May 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Why weren’t we concerned about the rules? We were from families that were even stricter than BJU; of course, we could live with the draconian rules because we’d lived under them all our lives. But you grow a lot from ages 18-21; you begin to realize that this kind of control isn’t healthy.
Why didn’t we go to a different Christian school? All our lives we were told that other schools, even Liberty (Jerry Falwell’s school), were compromising liberals who were less than pleasing to God. We earnestly desired to follow God completely; we believed that only WE were truly sold-out to God. We feared contamination; we feared becoming “cast-aways.”
What about accreditation? When I went, BJU said it didn’t matter because their grads were accepted into med schools and law schools (which they have been). At the age of 17, I really didn’t understand the significance of accreditation and the adults who should have considered a conservative Christian education of more value than the worldly approval accreditation seemed to convey, so they didn’t warn me. I really thought not being accredited wouldn’t mean a thing!
by pastor's wife on May 3, 2012 at 3:05 pm
S vAmen! I don’t know Chris personally, but it seems that he used the Phelp’s thing as a cover for his rebellion. What is his connection to Tina? Were did he get his facts? From media alone? Because of course the media is always spot-on. (Note the sarscasm). Someone on here earlier applauded him for wearing a hollister shirt in the video. My first reaction to seeing his choice of clothing was that it was evidence of his desire to be the opposite of what is expected at BJ. He is very open about that. Yep, the Phelps thing is his red herring. Anyone feel that?
by what's right? on May 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Let’s just say when I saw your initial questions I suspected you would end up coming back to announce you had discovered a conspiracy to smear that dear man of God, Chuck Phelps.
I call troll.
Your big “gotcha” points have already been asked and answered so many times that I’m not going to bother repeating all of the points again. I don’t really think you care about the answers, to be honest.
by Darrell on May 3, 2012 at 3:16 pm
You’re right, I speak too harshly. I apologize. I am not a troll and I do see how it would seem that way. I did know Tina. But I guess there isn’t a way to prove it so my opinion isn’t valid. I can’t prove she was encouraged to press charges but when I heard it I got angry. I know victims of rape don’t always go to the police but it made me angry to hear her say that it was because of fundamentalism. I’m sorry for my harsh words.
by M on May 3, 2012 at 3:29 pm
I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many on here feel the same way. I don’t comment on BJU because I’m mad about what happened to me. Frankly, I had a blast at BJU for 3 years. That’s why they kicked me out.
The tiny amount of time I spend on here, and a few other sites, commenting on Baptist Fundamentalism and BJU in particular, is because I hope somebody that is about to make the mistake of attending BJU reads my experience, and other’s, and chooses to go somewhere else. I’m not bitter or scarred. I have lifelong friends that I made there, and I look back fondly on the great times I had. But, I do feel that time isn’t wasted letting people know what they’re going to experience at BJU and after they graduate. I was a freshamn in 1993, so it was tough to “Google” anything. And, like many others, my house was so strict that I actually had more freedom at BJU than I did at home. There are great people in the faculty and staff at BJU. There are great people in the student body. But the people running the place work very hard to maintain an unhealthy culture similiar to the USSR under Stalin. People who tell on their friends and classmates are celebrated and promoted. Adults are treated like children. They have a VERY high divorce rate among couples that meet and get engaged at BJU. This is because BJU forces people to hide who they really are in order to make it to graduation. People who end up working in the real world dread being asked about where they went to college.
These are all things that I would have liked to have known before I made the choice to go there. So I will continue to spend 5 of the 1,440 minutes God gives me every day, conversing with people that have had similiar experiences, and warning people that are about to potentially make a very costly mistake.
by After Glow on May 3, 2012 at 4:35 pm
And PLEASE let me know why I’m wrong. I really do want to know what happened. If I’m wrong I want to know. I want to know the truth.
by M on May 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm
If you have information that I don’t know I really want to know it. If I’m wrong then it means that people I trust are lying to my face and I want to know.
by M on May 4, 2012 at 12:14 am
Thanks. I’m newer to this story and didn’t know about his home life.
by Mominator on May 4, 2012 at 1:22 am
astroboi-BJU does not publicize its “draconian conduct code.” Also, even when you are given a rulebook as a student, the specific penalties for many things (like what I did) are not specified. It’s kind of like Russian Roulette.
I found an interesting twist on their expulsion policy when I got a hold of contraband material one day in the dorms: a ‘special” rulebook only given to student leaders and not available to the heathen masses. Basically, identical crimes may or may not result in expulsion, depending on A) whether the criminals turn themselves in before someone else reports them and B) how widely publicized their crime is. In other words, if you haven’t told anyone your dirty little secret, you might get away with it, but if you’ve told all your friends about your sin/mistake (even to ask them for prayer-yes, the book actually specified this) then you’re outta luck.
by excommunicated from Fundyland on May 4, 2012 at 9:35 am
I shouldn’t have said that I never realized Tina lied. What I meant to say is that YOU never realized Tina lied. I always had serious suspicions but I had not confirmed them so I didn’t want to share any information that I couldn’t swear by. If I ever do see Tina again I hope God would help me be gracious to her and forgive her and not say what I wrote. I’ve never met Chuck Phelps and I don’t know why he used church discipline but unless someone can provide me proof that the police couldn’t find Tina in Colorado contrary to my own memory I will continue to believe what I do. If you can’t provide me with proof then I suggest you stop your slandering before you further embarrass yourself.
by M on May 4, 2012 at 11:48 am
Really? Really? She didn’t press charges because she was freakin 14 and scared out of her mind. I was abused as an 11 year old and people ask me “Why didn’t you press charges?” Because I was 11. Don’t even try to make this Tina’s fault. Damnit she was raped by a grown man. And the Pastor knew. He needs to be punished!
by Bob M on May 4, 2012 at 11:54 am
Good for you!!!
by headnotbowedeyeswideopen on May 4, 2012 at 12:20 pm
“They funded churches for the sole purpose of creating feeder institutions.” This is SO exactly right. The amount of pressure from the pulpit and staff at bju ifb churches to feed into bj is equivalent or worse to the pressure a kirby vacuum salesman puts on you while refusing to leave your home…
by headnotbowedeyeswideopen on May 4, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Her mother knew and refused to press charges and she was an adult.
by M on May 4, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Yes perhaps I’m being too hard on Tina and should fault her mother more. I feel badly that she was scared and didn’t want to press charges but she told the media that Phelps made her keep quiet. He reported it. If he had obstructed justice by manipulating Tina then why isn’t in prison?
by M on May 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Her mother married a child molester. Don’t expect too much good thinking out of such a mother.
by Michael Kreger on May 5, 2012 at 4:17 pm
I’d be careful how I phrase that. There are women on SFL who unwittingly married child abusers as well.
The difference is that once they discovered the abuse they took their children away from their husband and did not defend his actions. Anybody can be fooled. The difference lies in what happens once you discover the truth.
by Darrell on May 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Yes, you are right. Good call. The key is, “how does she react when she KNOWS that he is a child molester.”
From everything I have read about this situation, she did not react correctly. She sided with the molester, and against the children.
by Michael Kreger on May 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Statute of limitations ran out.
by Michael Kreger on May 5, 2012 at 4:26 pm
It is important to understand how insular the Independent Fundamental world is. Quite often, such churches have VERY little contact with the outside world. The people may spend six or seven days in the church/school building. Church, school, after-school activities…all with other members of the church and school. So, someone who might be perfectly visible to you who were on the Inside might be perfectly invisible to anyone on the Outside.
Police get lots and lots of reports all the time. Many reports are false. So, if someone calls in to report a rape, but never completes any paperwork, and never returns subsequent calls from the police, AND if this person is a Pastor, it is understandable if the police move on to more pressing business with people who demonstrate an interest in pursuing the issue. Because, obviously, the Pastor who only calls once or twice and doesn’t fill out a police report and doesn’t return our calls must have everything under control, right? It must have been a misunderstanding or maybe a prank call, right? We see no sign of an alleged victim, right? Okay, then. Move along to the stabbing victim that we just found. Lots of work to do right here.
by Michael Kreger on May 5, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Thanks Michael, yes this does make sense. I apologize to Darrell for saying he is embarrassing himself or slandering, I shouldnt say that. I just didn’t like that he called me a troll and implied that I was lying about knowing Tina. I really have no interest in defending fundamentalism or chuck phelps if it isn’t deserved. What I was told was that Tina’s mother didnt want to press charges but wanted Tina away from Willis and the family was willing to take her in and care for her (I don’t know for sure that they paid her medical expenses but I believe they did). Anyway I am sorry for what I wrote about Tina, I was just trying to figure it all out and I got upset. I know she was failed by many people but also many people tried their best to help her. If Chuck Phelps did in fact discourage her from pressing charges then yes, he should be punished for it. I’m sorry I jumped to a conclusion and got angry and called Tina a liar. I’m not sure if I’ll ever know for sure what happened.
by M on May 5, 2012 at 6:38 pm
I, for one, am glad you all do what you do. Thank you for the heads up.
by headnotbowedeyeswideopen on May 5, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Well then shouldn’t we be saying that chuck phelps helped the mother cover it up instead of saying that the mother helped chuck phelps cover it up?
by M on May 6, 2012 at 12:15 am
You know, M, I really appreciate the spirit I’ve seen in you here. And I understand how your emotions and thinking can run the gamut that they have run here. Many of us can. We wanted to believe the best about people, and we’ve been horribly disappointed. Then, we’ve been slapped about the head and shoulders for NOTICING the evil, and for calling it what it is. We are called Bitter, Malignant, Hateful, Ungodly, Liars…everything you can imagine. This is why you got called a troll. Because we’ve heard all those words before. Sometimes from an honest-to-goodness troll, and sometimes by someone who is experiencing that horrific cognitive dissonance for the first time, and doesn’t know what to do with all this bad stuff.
Blessings to you. As I keep reminding myself, “Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.” That is the only way to survive this stuff.
by Michael Kreger on May 6, 2012 at 2:42 am
A worthwhile question. But…
Knowing what I know of IFB churches, it is more probably to think that the pastor was leading the discussion and making the decisions – most certainly not the mom. If the pastor were actually following the lead of Tina’s mom, it would probably go down in history as the first time in history that an IFB pastor followed the wishes of a female congregant rather than dictating terms.
Now I’m just being cynical.
by Michael Kreger on May 6, 2012 at 6:38 am
Well, just for arguments sake, what if Tina was carrying on a relationship with Willis and the mother wanted to cover that up? Tina says she let him in the house after being forcibly raped in the car. I know she was only 15 but I can’t figure out why she would do that unless there was some kind of relationship. Willis of course is responsible as he is the adult and he took advantage of Tina. But perhaps Tina’s mother wanted to spare her the shame of it being discovered that she was encouraging Willis romantically? After all, all they had to go by to convict Willis of forcible rape instead of statuatory rape was Tina’s word. So if this is true, Phelps did cover it up, but then it would have been to help Tina and her mother and not the evil intentions of sparing his deacon from punishment. Then it would make sense that he reported it, encouraged them to press charges, but the mother wanted to protect her daughter from the shame of carrying on a relationship with a man so much older and phelps helped her. This would also make sense why the church was led to believe that Tina got in trouble with a boy her own age. Then the story that phelps discouraged Tina and her mother from going to the police would be a lie. If he wanted to protect his deacon then why would he report it? The police usually have enough report with pastors to know that it wouldn’t be a prank call or misunderstanding. But I’m speculating and God knows what happened. But if this explanation makes sense then phelps made mistakes but did not have the evil intentions that people are saying. If that’s true then yes, I would be upset at Tina for coming back years later and telling the media that phelps discouraged her from pressing charges when he was trying to help her. Would the statute of limitations ever run out for something like manipulating a minor into silence about her rape? I do not blame Tina for what happened to her, but in my mind 15 is still old enough to know that if someone harms you, you don’t allow them in the house.
by M on May 6, 2012 at 9:57 am
You know what, no, I don’t believe Tina was encouraging Willis romantically. I shouldn’t speculate on that and it doesn’t matter as Willis is still responsible and not Tina. Sorry for this thought.
by M on May 6, 2012 at 10:45 am
Wait a second Michael, he never refused to fill out paperwork or return the police’s calls. They were the ones who did not pursue the case for whatever reason.
Here, just read what he has to say for himself:
http://www.drchuckphelps.com/specific-answers-to-some-difficult-questions.html
Tina’s mother’s statement:
http://www.drchuckphelps.com/mothers-statement.html
And more:
http://www.drchuckphelps.com/and-another-thing.html
So I was wrong to put any blame at all on Tina, but still right in being angry that she lied to the media in order to slander fundamentalism after so many people tried their best to help her. I believe Chuck Phelps is telling the truth.
by M on May 6, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Why would you assume that someone who had that much skin in the game to be truthful? This is a professional empire builder who has too much to lose to let the truth get in his way.
Sorry, his initial actions were too calculated. He did what he did to save his ministry. When ther truth came out he went directly into damage control mode. I’m not buying it.
by Don on May 6, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Don, I guess it just goes back to the fact that I knew Tina, and I knew the character of the people who she stayed with. They would never have agreed to keep Tina to protect the ministry of Chuck Phelps over protecting Tina herself. NEVER. And they were intelligent and would definitely have been able to detect something strange if Phelps had tried to lie to them about why Tina was pregnant. I know that Tina outrightly lied about being discouraged from being around people her own age in her statement. I know the people of my church tried to help Tina and befriend her. So even though I’ve never met Chuck Phelps I know the people at my church would never conspire to protect his ministry at Tina’s expense but all their actions were to protect and help Tina. Either Tina is lying or Chuck Phelps is lying and I can confirm at least one lie in her statement so I’m going with Phelps. He has documentation and she has media speculation. He fulfilled all his legal obligations and the police didn’t investigate. I blame the police most of all for ignoring the report.
by M on May 6, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Nice. You don’t happen to have a copy of this extra rule book, do you? It’s hard enough to even get a copy of the regular rule book to anyone before they actually enroll and arrive. This would be even better.
by Miriam on May 7, 2012 at 2:22 am
“He fulfilled all his legal obligations and the police didn’t investigate. I blame the police most of all for ignoring the report.”
But he faild as a pastor and fulfilled none of his moral obligations.
Do you know how Chuck reported the rape? Do you know if he reported it as a Rape? I don’t and neither do you. Chuck may have contaceted the police. Chuch may also have worded what he said is such a way that it covered his posterior so that he can feign his hands are clean. Chuck may have reported it in such a way that he protected a big tither and kept his ministry from having to go through a messy rape investigation.
No, don’t sing the praises of Chuch Phelps around here, it rings hollow. Through out the entire arrair Chuck Phelps has defended one person: Chuck Phelps.
As to Tina. Did you know that she had been molested by her step father? Did you know she had been raped by Ernie willis, or as Chuck called it, “had an ongoing consensual affair” with a man more than twice her age who got her pregnant? Did you? Did any of the “good” folks at your church? I highly doubt it. They probably just believed what Chuck had told them. And for her part Tina had already learned that in order to survive the ordeal (and life in the IFB in general) she would have to go along with what ever the pastor said. But that would not keep her from trying to fit in and attempt to have a normal childhood. And that is what you would have seen.
So tell me M. How was your family life growing up? Did you have a step dad that molested you? Did you have a step dad that was a convicted child molester? Did you have a baby at 16 years old? Were you raped, or as Chucky would have us believe were you “sexually active” at 15?
If not, then I submit that you saw what Tina wanted you to see about Tina. And since your memory is so accute tell us what did you think of this pregnant teenager, who had obviously been having sex, being put into your midst? What was your judgment of her back then? What did you over hear your parents and other adults saying about her back then?
I wasn’t there but it is obvious that Chucky did what Chucky needed to do in order to save Chucky’s ministry from scandal. Tina was young, easily controlled and represented a problem. while Ernie was a financial asset. It was a no-brainer. The trick was how to do it under the banner of “Christian Love?” Church discipline made a nice cover for Chuck since he could present the problem without ever having to connect either of them to the problem together. Shrewd thinking on Chucky’s part at the time.
So, yes he claims he fulfilled all his legal obligations at the time… by he failed as a Pastor to care for the “least” of his sheep. He added insult to a lamb who as injured and allowed a wolf to remain in the fold.
by Don on May 7, 2012 at 6:39 am
No, I got up in the middle of the night one night to go to the bathroom and found it lying on the big desk on the first floor (the one where a spiritual leader is always sitting on the lookout during the day). It was full of a lot of other crap, but I was in too big a hurry to read it all. Someone really should publicize this stuff.
by excommunicated from Fundyland on May 7, 2012 at 8:02 am
You’re right Don, I shouldn’t defend his motives as I don’t know what they are. But if Willis was never in leadership, then why would it have been messy for the police to arrest him? Abuse happens in IFB churches (as it does everywhere) and the police usually just take care of it and the people are sad that it happened but glad that justice was done. If Phelps had devised an elaborate plan to keep one tither in the church (and risk substantial legal trouble and possibly jail) then I submit that he was not only evil but incredibly stupid.
No, I didn’t know she had been molested or raped, I was 9. I never thought poorly of her and I don’t believe anyone else did. I just know that she seemed to be happy there. But you’re right, it could have been Tina just trying to have a normal life and go along with the culture. I didn’t realize that Chuck Phelps had written his side of the story until someone pointed it out to me yesterday (I assumed he never did so I didn’t look for it). If my whole church was deceived then it’s probable that I am deceived as well. I don’t deny that. I just wanted to share my observations. Just take them or leave them. I don’t know what happened so I’m not going to comment anymore.
by M on May 7, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Many other legalistic Christian colleges have done the exact same thing over the years. Chris Peterman’s experience is similar to that found in the novel ‘Pale Tides’ by Cass Tell, which is based on a real story. The ultimate punishment is to get kicked out a few days before final exams, thereby stealing your money. You better obey these hypocritical Pharisees or they will destroy you.
by Chloe Villars on May 8, 2012 at 6:01 pm
If Mr. Peterman was honest with himself he knew being kicked out was a possibility. So this is not a surprise. These kinds of schools are mean, just like fighting fundies are mean. They should never sing “mazeing Grace” they don’t know what the song means. I went to a school that started out this way but as the founder of that school realized you can’t reach the world by keeping a bunch of rules he changed and so did the school.
by Jim Montgomery on Feb 20, 2013 at 11:22 am